MSA ruling on engine capacity increase

[mef]

Hi everyone,

I'm considering building a 1 series BMW tarmac rally car. The problem is that I am not sure about one of the newly changed MSA rules regarding increasing engine capacity. It seems to me to be rather vague in the way it is written!

MSA Blue book, Rule H 272 (page 307) states that "you may only fit an engine that has a capacity increase of 25% maximum over that fitted to the model when it was supplied as original equipment by the manufacturer"

Now, I would intend to use a 116i as the base car but as this is a 1600cc, 25% increase would take it up to 2000cc max.

I want to fit a 3000cc M3 engine, would this be allowed as obviously there is a 130i model in the 1 series range which is already 3000cc or does the rule actually relate the my own model in question, ie. a 116i ?? In other words would I have to base mine on a 125i or 130i

this ruling must also apply to anyone considering building a compact with a 3lite engine using a 316 compact as the base car.

hope this makes sense!

I have sent this question to the MSA but no answer so far.

thanks,

martin

[bruvs1]

hi martin welcome to the forum, i know your no stranger to re-inventing the wheel the basic rule is 25% of the capacity the bodyshell is designed for i;e e36 compact designed for 2.5 in the 323ti, so no problem with building a 130i with any 3.0 litre, two door obviously spoke on the phone with the m.s.a when we started the compact just to clarify and said "there was no problem" .

[mef]

Ok, thanks for that info, that's good news then as a 116 will be much less expensive and more plentiful than a 130i to source as a base car, it's just a pity that the msa make their wording so vague as to make the ruling uninterpretable! It wouldn't have been hard to have worded it to read what they actually meant.

I know it's strange for me to be considering using a ready made rwd car but that's what the new msa regs have achieved!

Martin

[M3 Compact]

When I built my first compact in 2004, I spoke to a Mr Symes at the MSA who insisted that I send him a written spec sheet/plan of modifications.

Loads of CCLB hassle with the first one, none whatsoever with the current one.

[mef]

When I built my first compact in 2004, I spoke to a Mr Symes at the MSA who insisted that I send him a written spec sheet/plan of modifications.

Loads of CCLB hassle with the first one, none whatsoever with the current one.

Thanks, it seems strange that they wanted a spec of mods for what is a standard car, ie rwd as per OE.

Although I accept what you are saying I would really like to see some clarification of the ruling by the MSA (who still havn't replied to my email), the rule clearly says 25% max increase for the model, do they mean ANY model in the range, ie any 1 series in that range or the specific model being used?

Thanks,

martin

[bruvs1]

thats what they told me, if you want it clearing up quick, phone them, i found them helpful!!

[notax]

MSA technical are very helpful on the phone, call them! As mentioned there is no issue so long as the bodyshell came with a large enough engine even if your car didn't - my 318ti Compact became a 3.0 M3 and the new shell was only a 316...

Good luck with the build

NB you can only use a 3.0 not a 3.2...

[mef]

MSA technical are very helpful on the phone, call them! As mentioned there is no issue so long as the bodyshell came with a large enough engine even if your car didn't - my 318ti Compact became a 3.0 M3 and the new shell was only a 316...

Good luck with the build

NB you can only use a 3.0 not a 3.2...

OK, yes I realised that 3l was the limit. Thanks, I'll give them a ring just to confirm things but from what you're all saying there shouldn't be any problem.

I see from the V5 that you can change the fuel type so if my base car was a diesel I can easily change that to petrol, also I see you can change the body type so I could build a 2 door coupe from a new shell and notify DVLA of the new body type/floorpan.

I'm looking out for a suitable damaged car, cat C or preferably cat D.

Thanks,

Martin

[mef]

Today I received an email from Michael Duncan who is an MSA Technical administrator which clarifies the regulation:


"For regulation R48.2.6 we take the original capacity as the largest capacity engine fitted to that model of car as original equipment; so you can use the 3000cc engine from the 130i provided it complies with the overall capacity limits detailed in R48.2.1."

Michael Duncan
MSA Technical Administrator

So that clarifies the ruling perfectly, I suggested to Michael that the regulation should be re-worded to include the wording above, then it would be easily understood.

Thanks,

Martin