PROCARE STAGES....3 Sisters...3rd May 09...Bank Hol weekend

[M3 Compact]

Good luck Pete.

Not yet quite 100% impossible that we'll see you there....

Possibly just spectating, tho. If you see a bald bloke with a camera, give him a wave on the off chance.

[rearwheelsteercompact]

Not yet quite 100% impossible that we'll see you there....

Possibly just spectating, tho. If you see a bald bloke with a camera, give him a wave on the off chance.

You're very welcome to pop in for a brew before you head back to pikeyshire

[Ptrs14]

Good luck Pete.

Not yet quite 100% impossible that we'll see you there....

Possibly just spectating, tho. If you see a bald bloke with a camera, give him a wave on the off chance.

Thanks Simon....if you make it there, do come across & say hello...

[Ptrs14]

[quoteCar looks well Pete.

This event is run by Wigan who always run a slick event with quick change arounds. Enjoy....... ][/quote]

Thanks....Not too far for you I would of thought.. .....are we going to see you out speccying

[rearwheelsteercompact]

Thanks....Not too far for you I would of thought.. .....are we going to see you out speccying

Not sure as yet. If I do I'll come and have a good sniff around your car say hello

[M3 Compact]

Had a final effort this morning all day today, Pete - van's packed etc and if we'd had any luck with the car we'd have been there tomorrow morning.

We didn't have any 'luck' and we won't be there.

Enjoy.

[M3 Compact]

Haven't seen any results, but Pete deffo had a winning day. .....

[Ptrs14]

Haven't seen any results, but Pete deffo had a winning day. .....

Guys...full report later today....but not a particularly good run, due to a couple of quite major compromises relating to the car... . Car did run faultlessly all day, never put a spanner near it...more to do with set up etc.....all will be explained later...

[is-si]

never put a spanner near it

getting round reliably is a good start , looking forward to the report

[Ptrs14]

Well, here goes....never really had to give an explanation of what Ive been upto before...well not on a rally anyway..

Got to 3 sisters nice & early to set up our stall...I do hate having to rush around, last minute etc..
Scrutineering all straight forward...little concerned that noise was only taking place 'immediately' prior to start of stage 1.. ..wot happens if you have a problem I dont know
I knew that going into this event that our tyre choice was always going to be a problem...just didnt realize how big a problem.. ..Choice is probably thye wrong word, more like 'bone idle' as I couldn't be arsed changing the Michelin Road/trackday tyres over to proper rally tyres..Oh how we suffered..!!
So going into stage 1..I knew that we would not have any heat in the tyres, so tread carefully for the 1st lap or so....off the line, nothing....both myself & codriver looked at each other before we had even moved 2-3 yards..thinking 'who's left the trolly jack under the back'..
Needless to say it was the same story thro 2nd & 3rd gears & for the remaining lap & half...JUST NO GRIP..
However...more worrying was the lack of power steering..this proved to be a major setback & something we could do nothing about on the day. The problem lies in the non assisted std rack which is not exactly a quick rack & therefore you are doing an awful lot of turning at a venue the nature of 3 sisters..tight & twisty. This lack of PAS was not an issue when doing the roundy roundy circuit stuff, as you are only ever moving the wheel thro a much shorter ratio...also at a slower turn rate if that makes sense...smoother turn action thro the corners. Whereas on a rally you need the ability to throw the car into something & have complete immediate response from the wheel. This meant that once the car got out of line by more than 15-20 degrees...there was no way I could retrieve it quick enough..if at all...it felt like the steering was almost locked once you got into an 'opposite lock' scenario..
Anyway..as there was nothing I could do to change this, it meant that we had to try to be as tidy as poss. We had the power for any straight bits , but lost all/any advantage in the tight corners. Our pace around these corners / hairpins must of looked almost comical..
Another quite serious issue, which was highlighted by the steering woes...was that I had no elbow room to do the steering inputs due to the high position of my door 'X' bars. My elbow kept hitting the bar, which mid-corner really f**ks you up...This is not just an irritant..but a real problem that I will have to do some re-engineering on...
That said...the day was great fun & the car didnt need anything other than petrol during the whole day... It was a very useful exercise which has highlighted the problem that we need to give immediate attention to before venturing out again....
1....Re-engineer the door bars. Move to a lower position.
2.... Fit quick rack & PAS.....NO Im not being a whimp
3.... Fit some decent rubber next time...

All in all a crackin day out...hopefully next time with some other forum buddies..

[Sunbmw]

Well, here goes....never really had to give an explanation of what Ive been upto before...well not on a rally anyway..

Got to 3 sisters nice & early to set up our stall...I do hate having to rush around, last minute etc..
Scrutineering all straight forward...little concerned that noise was only taking place 'immediately' prior to start of stage 1.. ..wot happens if you have a problem I dont know
I knew that going into this event that our tyre choice was always going to be a problem...just didnt realize how big a problem.. ..Choice is probably thye wrong word, more like 'bone idle' as I couldn't be arsed changing the Michelin Road/trackday tyres over to proper rally tyres..Oh how we suffered..!!
So going into stage 1..I knew that we would not have any heat in the tyres, so tread carefully for the 1st lap or so....off the line, nothing....both myself & codriver looked at each other before we had even moved 2-3 yards..thinking 'who's left the trolly jack under the back'..
Needless to say it was the same story thro 2nd & 3rd gears & for the remaining lap & half...JUST NO GRIP..
However...more worrying was the lack of power steering..this proved to be a major setback & something we could do nothing about on the day. The problem lies in the non assisted std rack which is not exactly a quick rack & therefore you are doing an awful lot of turning at a venue the nature of 3 sisters..tight & twisty. This lack of PAS was not an issue when doing the roundy roundy circuit stuff, as you are only ever moving the wheel thro a much shorter ratio...also at a slower turn rate if that makes sense...smoother turn action thro the corners. Whereas on a rally you need the ability to throw the car into something & have complete immediate response from the wheel. This meant that once the car got out of line by more than 15-20 degrees...there was no way I could retrieve it quick enough..if at all...it felt like the steering was almost locked once you got into an 'opposite lock' scenario..
Anyway..as there was nothing I could do to change this, it meant that we had to try to be as tidy as poss. We had the power for any straight bits , but lost all/any advantage in the tight corners. Our pace around these corners / hairpins must of looked almost comical..
Another quite serious issue, which was highlighted by the steering woes...was that I had no elbow room to do the steering inputs due to the high position of my door 'X' bars. My elbow kept hitting the bar, which mid-corner really f**ks you up...This is not just an irritant..but a real problem that I will have to do some re-engineering on...
That said...the day was great fun & the car didnt need anything other than petrol during the whole day... It was a very useful exercise which has highlighted the problem that we need to give immediate attention to before venturing out again....
1....Re-engineer the door bars. Move to a lower position.
2.... Fit quick rack & PAS.....NO Im not being a whimp
3.... Fit some decent rubber next time...

All in all a crackin day out...hopefully next time with some other forum buddies..

Nice write up Peter, thanks.

Re the cage, I was going to fit another extra bar in the door aperture, from the top of the "A" pillar down to the mounting poit at the floor, like most international spec cars, however, I tacked the bar in place, and with the steering wheel on it would have been impossible, it would have banged my elbow and knuckles I reckon. Big no no mid corner when you are on it.

Steering, the single best thing you can do on a rally car is increase the speed of the steering, then if you can make it easier to use too, double bonus. My Z3 rack (2.7 turns) and Saxo steering works a dream, well chuffed. Bruvs will be along shortly to tell you what rack they use.

Lastly, tyres are the be-all and end-all of a good result, period. I would never scrimp or save when it comes to Rubber, my mate Andy Knott (Slicks Tyres) does good deals on very light use, used tyres, all quality makes such as Pirrelli or BF Goodrich etc, wort podding a few quid out for in my opinion.

Glad that the car was reliable, get the issues sorted and we will see you at the RBMR eh?

[Ptrs14]

Glad that the car was reliable, get the issues sorted and we will see you at the RBMR eh?

Thanks Lee... Would love to do the RBMR...But away on Hols this year...great planning..

Agree with your others points re..quick rack etc. Would like to hear some more about the 'saxo' PAS you are running...when you get a moment. Does it rum with the BMW steering column etc?? what donor bits are required from the saxo etc..
Thanks again
Peter..

[jonnysprinter]

Any results Pete? I understand that there was a few late entries to bump up the field a bit....
On my car I have a Z3 (not Z3M) PAS rack fitted which uses the existing PAS steering joint (manual joint is different), but there are a few other mods required which have been discussed previously to fit to an E30.
I still have a manual E30 quick rack for sale if you're interested.

[bruvs1]

well done getting through the woes, but glad you got some good mileage in ptr, as said previously, wigan is notoriously slippy early on until track temp improves and anglesey last week was no different.to find any grip you need the equivelent of khumo k60 or 90 or x12 or harder this time of year, as for the steering, being lhd, z3 racks are harder to find, are choice of 2.5 power rack from sellholm was a good move, and we run vac underdrive pulleys which helps the alternator without too much loss of power to the rack. 15" wheels and above need assistance either that or buy a bullworker just a thought, any chance you could move your seat/driving position to accomodate the door bars?

[Ptrs14]

Any results Pete? I understand that there was a few late entries to bump up the field a bit....
On my car I have a Z3 (not Z3M) PAS rack fitted which uses the existing PAS steering joint (manual joint is different), but there are a few other mods required which have been discussed previously to fit to an E30.

Jonny.....Results will be on the website I presume...haven't seen any myself yet.

I still have a manual E30 quick rack for sale if you're interested.

Is it LHD??...If so could be interested

just a thought, any chance you could move your seat/driving position to accomodate the door bars

Looked at that already....needs surgery if the job is going to be right..
The Selholm rack option could be interesting...any more details / info thanks