E30 Coupe vs E36 Compact Road Rally Car

[Peredur]

Hi,

I'm thinking of building a road rally car and was looking at a compact as a base however, I read on here that a E30 bare shell is roughly 40kg lighter than the compact. I'm aware of the road rally regs with lighting and it is not really an issue (cibie modules). The E30 axle is stronger apparently as well.

So, which would be better as identical spec cars (like for like) so, same engine, box etc.

Any relevant advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Peredur

[alan1272]

right so comparisson between E30 318is and E36 318ti:

e30 is lighter but good ones are getting rare and most will need some welding.
axels are pretty mucg the same; with road rally power you wont be breaking anything apart from maybe the diff mount but thats easily fixed with a twin ear backplate.
e36 have the direct top gearbox.
e36 can run standard lighting + spots
E30 can only run standard lighting or low beams and spots
E30 has the M42
some E36 has the M44
E36 has a rear hatch, makes putting rally plate on rear window easier.
E30 (prefacelift) looks better.

most of the points above are only minor, there's not much to choose between them but the availability of E36 compacts is much better than E30 at the moment.

[Peredur]

Thanks for that,

to further narrow down the choice:

Engine and box would be honda S2000
Cibie H4 Modules would be used in an E30

What about challenge parts for an E30?

Thanks

[avtovaz]

compact... fact ;P


Why s2000? How much power do you want?

[Peredur]

Well, the S2000 seems to have all things for all men;

Unstressed 240 bhp (don't have to use all of it all of the time)
RWD Configuration with 6 speed direct top gearbox as standard (could be swaped for a straight cutter)
Jap reliability
IIRC Alloy block
4 pot (Road rally rules)
High £:BHP ratio

Also (apart from you using one) why do you say compact so diffinitively?

The E30 lighting (4 beam issue) does not bother me in the slightest as there are top 10's full of escorts and golfs etc. with only a pair of H4 headlamps and a pair of spots

TBH the weight difference is favouring the E30 and i can't see many reasons (except availability) for choosing the compact over one.

I'm more than willing to listen to any suggestions either way

[Daishag]

What cc is a Honda 2000 engine ??? Just asking coz the biggest 4 pot BMW is a 1900cc and the new road rally rules for next year onwards are designed to ban the 2.4 Escort brigade so you will be only allowed to use a 60thou or 90thou rebore size on the biggest engine capacity made for that car model.

So the way i read that rule is Escorts were made with a 2.0 pinto 4Cyl with a 90 thou re-bore you will be able to run a 2.1cc (all though i will love to see someone pull a all singin dancing pinto to bits at the finish to prove it etc). Problem i see with the BMW is yes they did a 325 or 323 compact and E30 with a 2500cc engine but that is 6cyl which outlaws them sized engines in road rally cars so the biggest cc BMW they used as a 4pot is a E30 M3 2300cc or 2500cc Evo is it not ?????

So may be the above take on the proposed rule will influence your decsion on the car etc as the biggest 4 pot E36 was a 1900 so a plus 90thou on that is a tadge under 2000cc is it not ?????

Cheers Dave aka Daishag Rallying 07805835655

[Peredur]

Yup, Honda F20C (s2000 engine) is 2000cc, so with the welsh regs, it could be put into any car 2000cc or above as it's the cc that's the issue with that rule, as far as I can work out if you put one in a 325i for example you'd be OK as it's under the original capacity of the car. I might be rule bending but I'm just taking them literally. For the 325, in it's original spec (2.5 6pot) it breaches the 4 pot maximum of the MSA regs, the capacity is not an issue (neither for MSA), hence the crazy power escorts with 2.6 pintos etc.

[Daishag]

I think if you don the sums even a S2000 engine into a 1900 compact would be OK then bud, i think they do have to do something to stop these 25K - 30K Escorts competiting on Road Rallies. Yes they are entertaining to watch but some people they reprsent whats wrong with the sport ie the wrong image to the general public and also this is meant to be entry level rallying !!!!!!

Cheers Dave aka Daishag Rallying 07805835655

[hsr2.6]

There's a lad over here with an S2000 in an e30 and it's crap, all rev and no go.......

[Daishag]

I agree with that Steve, i had a Mk2 Escort with a 2.0 8v Vauxhall engine with Split 45's by Dave Brookes, and that was awesome on the lanes as it was torquey as hell, way better than a 16v Red Top !!!!! So i do agree exactly with what you are saying a torquey motor is what you need on Road Rallies not out an out BHP like the S2000 motor has, i know of a few people who run them in stage rally cars and they complain of the fact if you don't keep in the groove which i believe is very hard as there power band is very high up and is quite narrow they are like trying to drive a 2 ton car with a 850 mini engine fitted !!!!!!

Cheers Dave aka Daishag Rallying 07805835655

[alan1272]

the rules regarding cubic capacity being the same as orignally fitted to the car are only for those wishing to compete in the WAMC championship are they not?

tbh if you have the budget to install an S200 motor and don't mind having to weld a rusty E30 up, why are you bothering with a BMW at all? just get a mk2 escort and win some events.

[Garry.M]

A mate of mine with an E36 compact has chosen to go down the S2000 engine and box route and for me it looks a load of hassle . He's had to get a dry-sump kit because the engine is so tall + cross member issues -you'll probably need to get a really low diff ratio to get it work well ,, which isn't cheap either.
He's got the engine in place but its taken a while for him to get around silly little issues ,,heater box clearence,,steering rack joints and pas pipe fittings etc

[Peredur]

Thanks

I appreciate that the s2000 engine is unsuitable, so:

Which is the better base? E30 2dr or E36 compact

[hsr2.6]

As for all things old (E30) parts will be hard to come by but with the compact there's still a lot of fresh clean shells and parts around.......

[mike]

There's a lad over here with an S2000 in an e30 and it's crap, all rev and no go.......

Isn't that thing still running on a base map though? ive heard if you get em mapped properly with the V-tech engagement lowered there pretty good, especially with ITB's. Wouldnt be my choice of engine though.

I dont think the owners driving does the car any favours either..