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Sump Guards

PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:41 pm
by doubleg
I'm trying to get a guard sorted for the car for the end of the month.

It's a 316i Compact, we've done some 12 cars and Hexham's road rally with it but I might be running closer on the Bruce Robinson and would feel happier playing on the airfields with a guard on it as the car tends to catch on rough bits.

I was looking at this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E36-SUMP-GUARD-RACE-RALLY-COMPACT-CUP-X-BRACE-/221331115801?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item33885ccf19 on ebay.

I've messaged the seller but I wasn't entirely sure on the fit with it. Anyone used one? I presume it's meant to bolt directly to the subframe? It looks an odd shape and I'm not entirely sure quite how it's meant to go.

Was looking at the one chris rally has done. Obviously something like that is the proper job but we are running on a minuscule/non existent budget and I have the chance of a 318ti which I would be looking to do a better job off if we got a hold of it and had the funds. This one is more for learning and just getting out for a cheap play on some road rallies.

Or any other alternatives out there.

Re: Sump Guards

PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:44 pm
by is-si
it looks like that one just spans between the main cross member and the cross tube (between the chassis rails.) It would offer some quick protection to the sump.
Alternatively get a steel stock holder to cut/form something similar in 6mm ali plate and bolt it up yourself.
Ideally you need a longer guard that covers all the underside of the engine, with a tube' front support in 6 or 8mm thk. depending on length and use. 8)

Re: Sump Guards

PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:48 pm
by ChrisRally
Mine wasn't that expensive, although I can't remember how much.
It is designed to slide over and use the X brace, which is not a standard part so you would have to source one of those also.
Sean at Rally Weld in South Wales cut and bent mine for me.

Re: Sump Guards

PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:36 am
by doubleg
The X brace is this I presume http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-4113-motorsport-x-brace-e36-318323325328m3.aspx

I also saw this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E46-3-SERIES-SUSPENSION-X-BRACE-CROSS-MEMBER-ENGINE-SUB-FRAME-/320892027153?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

To be honest until I saw it mentioned in the advert for that guard I didn't even know such a thing existed for them.

I'm perhaps in vain hoping to stumble across a quick fix option, as Avto will no doubt be able to confirm should he appear I am the last person who should get into a full "proper" build or the car will end up mint, but only by the time it's eligible for historics!

Re metal work the North East is a backwater for such things, I've got a guy down country who does metal work for me but he has nothing that will bend 6mm Dural effectively.

I've been looking through the Chris' pictures on his site and the front brackets up to the chassis and such like but I just can't see me managing that in time for the Bruce. If the Escort was up at my mates bodyshop already and I could get the car in the garage it would be possible but on the drive it's an issue.

Not really sure which way to go. I'm getting made redundant in March so about to go from being quite skint to proper skint hence the wish for the cheapest, quickest option to get out there and have a play.

The 318ti and build it properly is the preferred option but that's a long term thing and I've done too many long term builds and not enough competing.

There is just so little on the front of the car in terms of anything to mount to. Really not sure what to do.

I'm surprised there isn't much on offer in terms of off the shelf stuff.

Re: Sump Guards

PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:17 am
by ChrisRally
The Turner one is the one in question, they often appear on flee bay. They are a BMW item, not something invented by Turner, so are quite common.

I think you could make up a tube with suitable flat section to bolt where the X brace picks up at the back of the engine, although I can't quite picture in my mind where it goes, and there are no clear photos on my web site, have to correct that.

Your's does not have to be quick release, so bolts and spacers would work fine at the back. The front as you know is an issue. You could bend a tube to come down from the chassis legs, across the guard and back to the other leg, and then bolt the guard to this. You should be able to come off the bottom of the legs, and could for ease and cheapness just weld it in place.

If you cannot get the guard bent, a straight one may work, but the front will be prone to catching, however if you don't put the X brace on you will gain more ground clearance, and the guard may sit high enough for this to not be an issue.

Sean has my drawing for the guard so could make an identical one, without the rear spacers.

Re: Sump Guards

PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:59 am
by mef
A 4mm thick alloy sumpguard is a bit feeble really, it will only offer very basic protection. Ideally you want a 6 or 8mm one to make it worthwhile.

Martin

Re: Sump Guards

PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:13 pm
by doubleg
Chris could you have a word with him and see if you can get me a price. I presume although yours is a Coupe the front end dimensions are all going to be the same as the Compact as it's only the back end which is different?

Despite my desire to not make something up myself I think it's going to end up being the way we go.

Putting in some kind of X Brace looks easy enough and more than happy to do that myself, the plan of doing a quick easy job never lasts long!

I need rod ends onto the Mk2 so it's rolling and I can send it to my mates bodyshop for a while then get the Compact into the garage to do some welding.

At this stage I'm only really concerned by protecting the thing, then I'll be looking at suspension (probably investing in springs and billies from my redundancy money). It's got no power but if we can do a deal on this Ti I am looking at the suspension and guard should transfer across anyway.

Re: Sump Guards

PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:13 pm
by doubleg
Chris could you have a word with him and see if you can get me a price. I presume although yours is a Coupe the front end dimensions are all going to be the same as the Compact as it's only the back end which is different?

Despite my desire to not make something up myself I think it's going to end up being the way we go.

Putting in some kind of X Brace looks easy enough and more than happy to do that myself, the plan of doing a quick easy job never lasts long!

I need rod ends onto the Mk2 so it's rolling and I can send it to my mates bodyshop for a while then get the Compact into the garage to do some welding.

At this stage I'm only really concerned by protecting the thing, then I'll be looking at suspension (probably investing in springs and billies from my redundancy money). It's got no power but if we can do a deal on this Ti I am looking at the suspension and guard should transfer across anyway.

Re: Sump Guards

PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:47 pm
by ChrisRally
He's not a personal friend, I just use him. Give him a call, Sean on 07970 782375. It was designed to sit level with the bottom of the front skirt, but I got the radius of the curve slightly wrong, nothing that a jigsaw and 2 minutes can't cure. I have promised Sean the updated dimension, but haven't been under that end recently to measure it.

I agree with MEF. Mine is 6 I think, which does flex slightly but just sits against the X Brace. I have had the car sat beached on it, I use it jack the car up with, and there is no distortion. If you don't have the X Brace I would go thicker as there is no room for the flex. Chris Harris on the Wyedean punched a large hole in his sump when a stone got stuck between sump and guard, and then when the guard flexed the stone made the hole.

Re: Sump Guards

PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:26 pm
by doubleg
Cheers I'll give him a try.

The front brackets look the most involved part of it. I'll have a chat with my neighbour and see what metal he has around.

Realistically I think it's going to be a tall order for the Bruce so I'll just have to be sensible with it. We've not had it bottom out previously on any 12 cars, between me and the guy who had it initially it's done 12 cars for nigh on 3 years. It's not been over airfields like the ones on the Bruce Robinson though.

I was bothered about how I was going to mount the lamps and I've already been plaguing Avto about how he did his brackets. I wanted something fairly substantial, mainly so I could add extra brackets to mount the adjusters, something like your front brace would give me the base to mount them as well I think.

Re: Sump Guards

PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:18 pm
by Adam Gardner
There is a someone selling the challenge sump guards for the e30 and e36 on the 205/bmw challenge. a guy called toni carrante think its http://www.juicemotorsport.co.uk/

Re: Sump Guards

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:18 pm
by doubleg
Probably a daft question but are all of the X braces the same?

i.e. something for a Z3 or M3 fits the normal E36 Compact? Looking at the pictures I've found online I'm also assuming this is a straight bolt on job as in the car already has holes for it I simply need to attach it.